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	<title>Comments on: How not to buy a car</title>
	<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/</link>
	<description>Moving beyond the basics</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 13:17:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Advanced Personal Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Deal With Insurance After a Car Accident Like a Pro</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-386</link>
		<author>Advanced Personal Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Deal With Insurance After a Car Accident Like a Pro</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-386</guid>
		<description>[...] Welcome and thanks for visiting! If you're new to Advanced Personal Finance, you may want to subscribe to my RSS feed.About a year ago, my wife was hit from behind and her car was ultimately declared a total loss. She was not seriously injured, thankfully. We did learn from the experience, though, and I&#8217;d like to share some of those lessons here. (We also later learned how not to buy a car) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Welcome and thanks for visiting! If you&#8217;re new to Advanced Personal Finance, you may want to subscribe to my <acronym title="Really Simple Syndication">RSS</acronym> feed.About a year ago, my wife was hit from behind and her car was ultimately declared a total loss. She was not seriously injured, thankfully. We did learn from the experience, though, and I&#8217;d like to share some of those lessons here. (We also later learned how not to buy a car) [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Advanced Personal Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; I Don't Do Credit Card Arbitrage</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-325</link>
		<author>Advanced Personal Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; I Don't Do Credit Card Arbitrage</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jul 2007 12:32:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-325</guid>
		<description>[...] need a car loan you didn&#8217;t anticipate? My wife had that experience when she got into a car accident and the insurance company declared her car a total loss. creditShare [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] need a car loan you didn&#8217;t anticipate? My wife had that experience when she got into a car accident and the insurance company declared her car a total loss. creditShare [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: james b</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-269</link>
		<author>james b</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jun 2007 16:18:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-269</guid>
		<description>A catalytic converter for a late model Volvo is about $300 for a bolt in (meaning about 1 hour labor) or a $50 for a generic part that can be welded in (in about an hour).  That repair estimate needs a second opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A catalytic converter for a late model Volvo is about $300 for a bolt in (meaning about 1 hour labor) or a $50 for a generic part that can be welded in (in about an hour).  That repair estimate needs a second opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Carnival of Personal Finance: Greatest Hits Edition âˆž Get Rich Slowly</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-264</link>
		<author>Carnival of Personal Finance: Greatest Hits Edition âˆž Get Rich Slowly</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jun 2007 08:34:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-264</guid>
		<description>[...] when you do things the wrong way. Advanced Personal Finance has just such a tale with &#8220;How not to buy a car&#8220;, a lesson we can all take to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] when you do things the wrong way. Advanced Personal Finance has just such a tale with &#8220;How not to buy a car&#8220;, a lesson we can all take to [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Advanced Personal Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; I hate the so-called &#8216;core&#8217; CPI</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-159</link>
		<author>Advanced Personal Finance &#187; Blog Archive &#187; I hate the so-called &#8216;core&#8217; CPI</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 May 2007 16:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>[...] food. The core CPI is relevant for things like refrigerators and cars. When was the last time you bought a car or a refrigerator? How relevant, then, is core CPI? Not [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] food. The core <acronym title="Consumer Price Index">CPI</acronym> is relevant for things like refrigerators and cars. When was the last time you bought a car or a refrigerator? How relevant, then, is core <acronym title="Consumer Price Index">CPI</acronym>? Not [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-99</link>
		<author>Micah</author>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2007 09:23:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-99</guid>
		<description>I don't work for them...just to be clear.

I'd never bought a new car before, was reluctant to get one (both of ours worked fine), but I was under extreme nagging pressure to buy the Odyssey (which had morphed from a Yukon or a Trailblazer).  So I did exhaustive research.  By the time I got to carsdirect.com, I felt like I was fully armed with all the potential pitches a salesman could throw at me.  When they (via e-mail) answered all my skepticism and doubts with answers that were sometimes the painful truth (like you can't cut some of those fees), I was cool and good to go.  So I picked everything I wanted in/on the car (much easier with Honda's because they make about 3 models) and they just told me which dealership to pick it up at (not the closest to my house, but 30 minutes away).  It took a little over an hour to get out of there, but I didn't have to deal with any "offers" or anything.

Frankly, I don't mind salesmen and I don't really enjoy the whole game with them either.  But while I can make time to look on the internet, talk to people, and maybe take one test drive, I don't have time to drive all over the place and wheel and deal.  With CarsDirect.com, I got the car I asked for, at what I knew was a good price, without hassle.

Oh yeah, and we didn't need a minivan.  It was nice to have the whole back end for the cross country, and the automatic sliding side doors are awesome, but that third row seat gets almost no use and we're probably going with a sedan in the next move.  I am in a unique situation, however, that will probably cause me to make an premature car transaction soon.  I got 2 cars transported to a remote location at no cost to myself and cars sell for a huge premium in this location.  So the van I bought in 2004 for $27k can probably sell in the next few years for hopefully $20k.  The van as transportation, particularly with kids getting older and probably having more commuting in my next location, is worth less to me than a vehicle I could buy with just the amount I sell it for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t work for them&#8230;just to be clear.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d never bought a new car before, was reluctant to get one (both of ours worked fine), but I was under extreme nagging pressure to buy the Odyssey (which had morphed from a Yukon or a Trailblazer).  So I did exhaustive research.  By the time I got to carsdirect.com, I felt like I was fully armed with all the potential pitches a salesman could throw at me.  When they (via e-mail) answered all my skepticism and doubts with answers that were sometimes the painful truth (like you can&#8217;t cut some of those fees), I was cool and good to go.  So I picked everything I wanted in/on the car (much easier with Honda&#8217;s because they make about 3 models) and they just told me which dealership to pick it up at (not the closest to my house, but 30 minutes away).  It took a little over an hour to get out of there, but I didn&#8217;t have to deal with any &#8220;offers&#8221; or anything.</p>
<p>Frankly, I don&#8217;t mind salesmen and I don&#8217;t really enjoy the whole game with them either.  But while I can make time to look on the internet, talk to people, and maybe take one test drive, I don&#8217;t have time to drive all over the place and wheel and deal.  With CarsDirect.com, I got the car I asked for, at what I knew was a good price, without hassle.</p>
<p>Oh yeah, and we didn&#8217;t need a minivan.  It was nice to have the whole back end for the cross country, and the automatic sliding side doors are awesome, but that third row seat gets almost no use and we&#8217;re probably going with a sedan in the next move.  I am in a unique situation, however, that will probably cause me to make an premature car transaction soon.  I got 2 cars transported to a remote location at no cost to myself and cars sell for a huge premium in this location.  So the van I bought in 2004 for $27k can probably sell in the next few years for hopefully $20k.  The van as transportation, particularly with kids getting older and probably having more commuting in my next location, is worth less to me than a vehicle I could buy with just the amount I sell it for.</p>
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		<title>By: KMC</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-93</link>
		<author>KMC</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 14:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-93</guid>
		<description>I don't know why some people are so vehemently against buying new cars.  I have no problem with it at all.  We went used this time because we didn't have a lot of money I wanted to put into a car right now, didn't want to borrow and have a payment, and like a safe car (it's amazing how much more important that is to me now with a wife and child I love - when it was just me, who cared?).
I love the new philosophy! "the less car transactions you make in your life, the less money you will lose on them."
I'd like to hear about the buying experience with carsdirect.com, by the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know why some people are so vehemently against buying new cars.  I have no problem with it at all.  We went used this time because we didn&#8217;t have a lot of money I wanted to put into a car right now, didn&#8217;t want to borrow and have a payment, and like a safe car (it&#8217;s amazing how much more important that is to me now with a wife and child I love - when it was just me, who cared?).<br />
I love the new philosophy! &#8220;the less car transactions you make in your life, the less money you will lose on them.&#8221;<br />
I&#8217;d like to hear about the buying experience with carsdirect.com, by the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Micah</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-84</link>
		<author>Micah</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2007 09:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-84</guid>
		<description>Carmax sucks,  They'll offer you 75% of the owner-to-owner value of your current car and then resell it for 110% of that.  Yeah, they supposedly won't sell you a bent up wreck, but that's just a ploy to make you feel like they're looking out for you.  How the EFF do you think they pay for those pretty showrooms, nice garages, primo locations, and kids activity rooms?  (Hint...if you're dumb enough to use Carmax, you probably can't figure out the answer to this question).

NOTE...You should probably be skeptical anytime someone is demonstrating a successful business model in buying goods back from one consumer and reselling them to another consumer.

I'm all about saving money and we do it well at my house.  Guess what?  The last car I bought was a NEW car!!!  That's right.  Personal Finance Heresy!  From CarsDirect.com actually, but that's not my point.  My point is that I could buy a BRAND NEW Honda Odyssey EX-L for $27,000.  Well, that car is 3 years old now, my wife has bonked it once, we've driven across country in it, and finally the warranty is running out (right at 3 yrs &#38; 36k).  But we have not had a single problem with this car.  Yes, I could've bought a used one that someone else took the depreciation on, but I would've been buying a year-old car with 20,000 miles on it and that would've probably only saved me $4-5k.

So here's my new philosophy...it's not whether you buy new or used that saves you money because you get what you pay for.  Car buying and selling is a losing, but necessary, transaction.  So my idea is simple...the less car transactions you make in your life, the less money you will lose on them.

if you're personal finance saavy, you're probably already considering a reasonable car.  You probably know how to do your research, and you're probably going to pick a model that has high resale value because of its reliability.  While that might sound good, what it really means is that you're going to be paying a higher percentage of the new price to get that car.  For some models, they can sell for 70%+ of their new price even after the expiration of the warranty.  Are there deals out there?  Sure.  Are there deals that appear too good to be true and end up jamming you?  Also, yes.   

The one thing you probably don't know when you buy a used car is how well they took care of it.  But even if they hand you a folder documenting every on-schedule preventative maintenance action, the one thing you almost certainly won't know is how the previous owner drove the car.  Do they dodge potholes?  Do they speed away from every light only to stomp on the brake pedal at the light 100 yds. ahead.  See where I'm going here?  Mileage isn't what kills cars.  If it was, all the non-wrecked ones would crap out at the same time.  Hard use is what kills cars.  High RPM event counts are what lead to engine problems.  Poor shifting practice ruins clutches.  Hauling crap wears out suspensions.  I could go on...but I'll spare you.

You only get so many stress events out of a car.  Those are generally averaged out by mileage.  But if the previous owner has done lots of them, you don't have as many left as you think you're paying for.  If you buy a new car and don't do very many of them, you can make the car last longer than the average, meaning you might get 15 years out of a car after paying 100% of the price instead of only getting 8 years out of the car (11 total) after paying 70% of the original price.

If you are smart and deliberate in your selection, and if you keep the car for a long time, you can buy a new car without any guilt and enjoy the heck out of babying it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Carmax sucks,  They&#8217;ll offer you 75% of the owner-to-owner value of your current car and then resell it for 110% of that.  Yeah, they supposedly won&#8217;t sell you a bent up wreck, but that&#8217;s just a ploy to make you feel like they&#8217;re looking out for you.  How the EFF do you think they pay for those pretty showrooms, nice garages, primo locations, and kids activity rooms?  (Hint&#8230;if you&#8217;re dumb enough to use Carmax, you probably can&#8217;t figure out the answer to this question).</p>
<p>NOTE&#8230;You should probably be skeptical anytime someone is demonstrating a successful business model in buying goods back from one consumer and reselling them to another consumer.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m all about saving money and we do it well at my house.  Guess what?  The last car I bought was a NEW car!!!  That&#8217;s right.  Personal Finance Heresy!  From CarsDirect.com actually, but that&#8217;s not my point.  My point is that I could buy a BRAND NEW Honda Odyssey EX-L for $27,000.  Well, that car is 3 years old now, my wife has bonked it once, we&#8217;ve driven across country in it, and finally the warranty is running out (right at 3 yrs &amp; 36k).  But we have not had a single problem with this car.  Yes, I could&#8217;ve bought a used one that someone else took the depreciation on, but I would&#8217;ve been buying a year-old car with 20,000 miles on it and that would&#8217;ve probably only saved me $4-5k.</p>
<p>So here&#8217;s my new philosophy&#8230;it&#8217;s not whether you buy new or used that saves you money because you get what you pay for.  Car buying and selling is a losing, but necessary, transaction.  So my idea is simple&#8230;the less car transactions you make in your life, the less money you will lose on them.</p>
<p>if you&#8217;re personal finance saavy, you&#8217;re probably already considering a reasonable car.  You probably know how to do your research, and you&#8217;re probably going to pick a model that has high resale value because of its reliability.  While that might sound good, what it really means is that you&#8217;re going to be paying a higher percentage of the new price to get that car.  For some models, they can sell for 70%+ of their new price even after the expiration of the warranty.  Are there deals out there?  Sure.  Are there deals that appear too good to be true and end up jamming you?  Also, yes.   </p>
<p>The one thing you probably don&#8217;t know when you buy a used car is how well they took care of it.  But even if they hand you a folder documenting every on-schedule preventative maintenance action, the one thing you almost certainly won&#8217;t know is how the previous owner drove the car.  Do they dodge potholes?  Do they speed away from every light only to stomp on the brake pedal at the light 100 yds. ahead.  See where I&#8217;m going here?  Mileage isn&#8217;t what kills cars.  If it was, all the non-wrecked ones would crap out at the same time.  Hard use is what kills cars.  High RPM event counts are what lead to engine problems.  Poor shifting practice ruins clutches.  Hauling crap wears out suspensions.  I could go on&#8230;but I&#8217;ll spare you.</p>
<p>You only get so many stress events out of a car.  Those are generally averaged out by mileage.  But if the previous owner has done lots of them, you don&#8217;t have as many left as you think you&#8217;re paying for.  If you buy a new car and don&#8217;t do very many of them, you can make the car last longer than the average, meaning you might get 15 years out of a car after paying 100% of the price instead of only getting 8 years out of the car (11 total) after paying 70% of the original price.</p>
<p>If you are smart and deliberate in your selection, and if you keep the car for a long time, you can buy a new car without any guilt and enjoy the heck out of babying it.</p>
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		<title>By: KMC</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-77</link>
		<author>KMC</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2007 12:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-77</guid>
		<description>We ruled out Carmax early on because, from what I could see, their prices were generally about $1,000 over everyone else's.  I see lots of their nameplates on cars, though, so I guess many people have had good experiences with them.  That sucks about the carfax report being wrong, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We ruled out Carmax early on because, from what I could see, their prices were generally about $1,000 over everyone else&#8217;s.  I see lots of their nameplates on cars, though, so I guess many people have had good experiences with them.  That sucks about the carfax report being wrong, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Fahn</title>
		<link>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-73</link>
		<author>Fahn</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Apr 2007 23:47:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://advancedpersonalfinance.com/how-not-to-buy-a-car/#comment-73</guid>
		<description>After knowing people who work in dealerships, you're better off buying a used car from somewhere like Carmax. They do more, inspection-wise. I had a friend take her sports car to Carmax for an appraisal. She bought the used car from a high end dealership. It was still under warranty, and we eventually found out why. The previous owner bent the entire frame of the car and tried to hide it by having it bent back. Carfax didn't disclose this information. The guy at Carmax let her know that she had a Lemon on her hands, and they wouldn't even buy it from her, for fear of endangering someone else's life. How sad is that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After knowing people who work in dealerships, you&#8217;re better off buying a used car from somewhere like Carmax. They do more, inspection-wise. I had a friend take her sports car to Carmax for an appraisal. She bought the used car from a high end dealership. It was still under warranty, and we eventually found out why. The previous owner bent the entire frame of the car and tried to hide it by having it bent back. Carfax didn&#8217;t disclose this information. The guy at Carmax let her know that she had a Lemon on her hands, and they wouldn&#8217;t even buy it from her, for fear of endangering someone else&#8217;s life. How sad is that.</p>
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